I am a fan of the author. Germs, Guns and Steel, especially, was a brilliant work of synthesis bringing together various disciplines to offer a theoretical explanation of perceived differences in human societies. But for some reason I could not slog through Collapse. I started to read it but lost interest. I rarely fail to finish a book I've started to read but this time I did fail. Maybe it's the author's style; maybe it's my fault; maybe I'll try again now that I have more time. For now the book has one star. ( )

http://nwhyte.livejournal.com/1344006...

A totally fascinating book looking at how the human impact on the environment can cause societies to collapse or disappear. The particularly memorable chapters are on Easter Island and the Viking settlements on Greenland, both cases where the natural resources were exploited to the point of mass death. There are lots of other case studies as well, mostly dealing with larger societies or states, but none quite as dramatic or as detailed.

The final chapters are an excellent synthesis of the message of the book. Diamond has a not very profound but interesting take on the nature of political decision-making, and why it goes wrong; on business and the environment (I would like to know more about the Marine Stewardship Council, and why it has had so little impact in Europe), and finally on future prospects for saving the world, where he is cautiously optimistic but not complacent. He is clear that our current patterns of environmental exploitation are not sustainable, but hopes that a sufficiently conscious public will be able to pressurise its leaders into taking action. The book will certainly help. ( )

Although I enjoyed the book it is far from a structured whole, more like a collection of somewhat disjointed parts with theoverarching thema of civilization collapse linked to environmental factors. It is not necessarily a bad thing though since it allows one to skim through the book or read it in several distant sittings.

I mostly bought it for the description of collapse of ancient societies : Greenland Norses, native Polynesians, Mesoamericans. The fate of each entity is comprehensively and compellingly narrated, with much (avowed) speculation on how exactly things may have happen, and a more general presentation of the factors involved. Each of these chapters reads like a well-documented novella.

I was more skeptic of the presentations of today's situations but they are balanced, interestingly. Diamond manages to draw surprising and thought-provocating parallels these contemporary issues and those faced by other civilisations throughout History.

The environmentalist and political preaching is in my eyes the weakest part of the book but it is a small part only and confined to a few chapter. ( )

En cours de lecture, mais je suis littéralement passionnée par ce livre. Si vous voulez comprendre l'impact humain sur son destin, il faut lire Jared Diamond. en plus c'est écrit simplement et on comprend tout. A acheter d'URGENCE! ensemble sauvons notre planète et prennons notre destin en main! ( )

090928, 5/5 stars
This is a good companion to one's ecological awakening. The main thesis of the book is (again, as in Guns, Germs and Steel) simple and powerful: During good times societies expand too aggressively, so that during worse times the environment can't support the population, and it collapses. The examples of past and present societies that have undergone a collapse are interesting, illuminating, and contain tons of details (perhaps too much detail, again as in GG&S).

The best parts of the book were the chapters on China and Australia, and the two final chapters. Especially the stuff going on in China is just crazy. The attitude concerning major corporations is good, encouraging people to take action in all feasible ways instead of abstract complaint about their creed.

Along the flood of evidence, I would criticize the repetition of some ideas, over and over again, about soil erosion and so on. Also, the Finnish translation is far from perfect. It's better than on GG&S, but still I get the feeling of direct word-for-word translation.

This book had quite an impact on me, especially since I just recently became a father. I would recommend this to everyone. ( )

Historical research shows JD that there are two main issues involving the collapse of societies where that collapse is related to environmental problems (Easter Island, Maya, Norse Greenland, ..):
1. Status competition between elites causing depletion of resources beyond sustainable limits.
2. Clinging to norms and values / cultural habits that are obsolete under new circumstances.

A very good read indeed on that part of the book.

When it comes to measures for this day and age however, he chickens out and says that enough books have already been written on how to influence government etc, and concentrates on the possibilities of individualistic consumer actions.

A bit disappointing in the way of a sociological analysis and sociologically underpinned advice for changing policies. ( )

I'd highly recommend the audiobook version of this book. It is a fascinating look at how things build upon each other and lead the eventual collapse of a civilization. ( )

I picked up this book because Jared Diamond was lecturing at my university. I wanted to attend but I wanted to make sure I had read the book first. Sadly, the brilliant girl at the university box office told me that Jared Diamond was no Zach Braff (who ever that is) so this event was not likely to be sold out. This in turn caused me to set aside my usually neurotic nature for ticket purchases (even for movies, I must arrive 45 minutes early to ensure that I can not only actually purchase tickets but also acquire strategically placed and desirable seating.) In any case, we got there 15 minutes before the lecture and it was COMPLETELY sold out. The videos of the lectures are available online though, if you happen to be interested.

The beginning of Collapse discusses environmental issues in Montana, it reads like a conservationist text. This made me disposed to disliking this book because it brought back bitter memories of a course I took in college. It was History of Environmentalism with a really smarmy pompous jerk of a Professor who made me want to gouge my eyes out for 50 minutes, 3 times a week. It also took me off guard, I was expecting to read a historical analysis of the collapse of otherwise successful societies, not the plight of Montanan farmers, which, at the risk of sounding horribly insensitive and elitist, I could not possibly care less about. (Sorry, my sheltered, untraveled Floridian city life is just too far separated from that for me to have any real appreciation for the problem, I can't even picture it in my mind and I just can't bring myself to care enough to try.) While I can understand that Diamond is using the problems in Montana as a base from which to begin the discussion of his hypothesis that choices based on environmental issues lead to the collapse of societies, I'm still really baffled by his choice of Montana. He recognizes this very flaw himself and says he could have chosen a place like Los Angeles but then he doesn't really provide convincing reasoning for why he didn't choose to do that. I mean, really, why not choose a populous city (which would surely also be more conceptually accessible to the majority of people reading this book)?

The chapter on Easter Island was amazing and undid the damage done by the Chapter on Montana. (I'm sure some of you are asking how I can be interested in the problems faced by Eastern Islanders who are surely more distant to me socially and historically than are modern day Montanans. True. I just happen to like history a lot and, like many other people, I happen to be fascinated by the stone statutes. *shrug*) In any case, Diamond goes through a series of factors that contributed to the decline and ultimate collapse of society on Easter Island. So many factors converged, like the perfect storm, and it made for an incredibly interesting read. I really wish this chapter had been longer, I just didn't want to stop reading.

The chapters on the Anasazi, Pitcairn, the Maya, Norse Greenland, Rwanda, Dominican Republic and Haiti were also fascinating. The brick wall, for me, was the chapter on Australia - once I got to that point in the book, like the chapter on Montana, I just couldn't stir myself to be compelled. However, overall, this is a great book and definitely worth the read. ( )

Um eines vorwegzuschicken: Dies ist ein thematisch wichtiges Buch. Die darin von Diamond aufgestellten Thesen sind nachvollziehbar und wohl auch in den meisten Fällen zutreffend (gelegentlich schleicht sich auf Nebenschauplätzen ein logischer Fehler ein, doch das ist zu verschmerzen). Die Schlussfolgerungen, die er zieht sind ebenso beunruhigend wie zwingend. Diamond ist sichtlich auf einer Mission, nämlich seine Erkenntnisse publik zu machen und zur Bewusstseinsbildung beizutragen. So gut und richtig das ist, es ist gleichzeitig auch der größere der beiden Fehler dieses Werkes (der kleinere ist die Amerika-Lastigkeit, die aber wohl nur nicht us-amerikanische Leser als solche empfinden werden).
Sind die Beschreibungen der untergegangenen Kulturen noch spannend zu lesen, werden dadurch Zusammenhänge gezeigt und dargestellt, so fällt der zweite Teil über aktuelle (zu beachten ist, dass das Buch aus dem Jahr 2005 stammt) Krisenregionen ab. Diamonds Faible für Listen, Kategorien und Aufzählungen führt sich zum Teil selbst ad absurdum, wenn er nach klarer Analyse und Ausarbeitung voneinander scharf abgegrenzter Themen schließlich (des Öfteren) zum Schluss kommt, dass ohnehin alles voneinander abhängt und die Lösung eines Teilbereiches nichts bringt.
Nach einem interessanten Kapitel 14 und leidlichen Kapitel 15 wird ihm jedoch sein missionarischer Eifer schließlich am Ende des dritten Teiles zum Verhängnis. Bereits in den ersten beiden Teilen erörterte Zusammenhänge werden neuerlich aufgewärmt, kategorisiert, aufgelistet und bewertet. Man spürt direkt die Dringlichkeit, mit der Diamond seinen Lesern den Ernst der Lage vermitteln will - immer und immer wieder. Schließlich gerät er im letzten Kapitel überhaupt ins Schwafeln und stellt mehrfach (streckenweise im Schnitt eine pro Seite) rhetorische Fragen, was in einem Vortrag für Dramatik sorgen mag, in einem Buch aber ermüdend wirkt, zumal die Antworten ohnehin schon auf den Seiten davor dargelegt wurden.
Stellenweise unterstellt Diamond seinem Leser auch erschreckende Unwissenheit (etwa wenn er behauptet, dass allgemein unbekannt sei, wofür Kupfer verwendet wird - ohne selbst jedoch diese Information zu liefern),
Der Hang zur Weitschweifigkeit wird leider durch die meines Erachtens katastrophale Übersetzung von Sebastian Vogel noch verstärkt. Kein Meeresspiegel der nicht "ansteigt" anstelle bloß zu steigen, keine Trinkwasserreseren die nicht "absinken" anstelle bloß zu sinken, es gibt "Veränderungen" jedoch keine "Änderungen", alles hat "Auswirkungen", wo doch schon die Wirkungen erschreckend genug wären. Dazu kommt gelegentlich auch eine anglizierte Satzstellung, die den Lesefluss behindert. Diese Liste ließe sich noch lange fortsetzen.
Was unter dem Strich bleibt, ist ein inhaltlich wichtiges und interessantes Buch, dass durch die Form der Darbietung an Eindringlichkeit jedoch nicht gewinnt sondern verliert. Eine gedrängtere Darstellung der zahlreichen Fallbeispiele und Belege hätte dem Anliegen Diamonds eher geholfen, als die weitscheifigen und sich auf den letzten Seiten zu einem Crescendo steigernden Appelle. ( )

Collapse is a must read for anyone wanting to understand how people can make obviously bad decisions using self-interest as a criteria. Even more pertinent now, Jared Diamond's book uses historical examples to illustrate how earlier powerful cultures destroyed their environments and themselves through a series of what they must have thought were perfectly logical decisions.
Diamond takes these lessons and applies them to modern situations and attitudes. He also explores how society's can be blind to the obvious because of deeply ingrained values that they are unable to challenge and change.
This is a powerful book that took me time to read and ponder.
It forced me to look at my biases against American capitalism and business decisions and to see past them to solutions that we need to implement.
The most difficult thing for me to accept is that it is the Public's responsibility to see that business behaves in accord with what is in the best interest of society. Business does not have the ability to do this because it is governed by another set of criteria, to turn a profit and to meet its fiduciary responsibility to its investors. Thus it is the Public that must formally define the values of clean air, water, food, etc., as regulations which business can then incorporate as costs of doing business: meeting expectations of both society and investor.
Diamond provides numerous examples of public pressure that resulted in significant positive changes in business behavior.
The best thing to do is read Jared Diamond's book and see how we, the Public, can produce positive change. ( )

The book is an analysis of a number of failed societies which are then compared with some that succeeded. The various reasons for these results are discussed. I was particularly impressed with Diamond's insight into the psychology of why and how societies fail. He also presented an understandable assessment of the rational and forces causing big business to do as it does and explains how societies can so easily fail to see or else respond to evident signs of imminent danger. A thought provoking book with some hopeful possibilities for the future presented despite a litany of evident dangers. ( )

This is a loooong book. Towards the end I had to take periodic naps to prevent my own collapse. Nonetheless, it’s riveting stuff. Diamond takes the approach of presenting various societies – ancient and current – in much detail; as microcosms, the numerous factors of potential decline faced by each is weaved into a narrative about various factors faced by our globalized world at large. By analyzing a dozen or so, often intertwined, issues that may have had bearing upon societal collapse or success through positive decisions and luck, he concludes with a summary of our own global situation. He’s a “cautious optimist” as it turns out.

He offers so much information (and some seemingly legitimate guesswork regarding prehistoric societies) that I felt no need to cross check anything. It’s certainly “TMI” if you’ve just finished the LEED book/exam and the most mental exertion you wish to expend revolves around whether to microwave frozen chimichangas for the third meal in a row. This is somewhat like sitting down to four years of National Geographic Magazine where all the photos of topless natives are replaced by more text. My brain is full as the kid from the Far Side comic once proclaimed. However, if you’re not currently experiencing such post-traumatic malaise, then I highly recommend. ( )

Jared Diamond goes deeper into the natural histories of societies in Collapse, continuing a broad and detailed look he began in Guns, Germs, and Steel. This time, Diamond looks into the details of why some societies failed and what those failures can say about our current world. While Collapse is less steamlined and more myopic (at times) than was Guns, this amazing historical investigation, centering on ecological and environmental subjects, offers a wealth of knowledge for those willing to dig through it.

Unlike Guns, Diamond stays small throughout much of this book, giving the reader in-depth descriptions of many societies that have existed over the past two thousand years. His thesis emphasizes a set of five basic areas where societies tend to prosper or fail, and focuses on those where the society had an opportunity to affect the outcome directly. In each society he investigates, Diamond takes time to detail how and why the society eventually collapsed or survived. Much of the book reveals that deforestation and destruction of basic natural resources should be primary concerns for everyone at all times. No society, shows Diamond, is immune to the dire consequences which come from such ecological disasters.

Starting off with discussions of a small area of Montana (which did set a slow pace) and the mysterious Easter Island (where the pace began to get much better), Diamond moves on to explore Pacific islands such as Henderson and Pitcairn. From there, he explains the collapse of the Anasazi in the southwestern US, the large-scale decline of the Maya long before Spanish arrival, and the westward exploration, expansion, and settlements of the Viking Norse. The Norse examination takes several chapters, and Diamond uses different fates of each Norse colony to explain why some failed while others succeeded.

Further discussions open the book to New Guinea (a speciality of Diamond's own first-hand research), as well as modern societies in Rwanda, Haiti and the Dominican Republic, China, and Australia. Each society offers clues to its own environmental situation, opportunities to exploit resources, and internal decisions which directly affected survival. Diamond spares no time on biased judgements, ensuring that his natural experiment has ample opportunity to define the characteristics of failed versus surviving societies.

The latter parts of the book consider all the information Diamond has layed out for the reader, and takes the time to carefully work up to a set of important environmental and ecological priorities. These priorities, including ensuring sustainable use of forests and marine resources, are Diamond's prescription to anyone wishing to affect survival of any society. Diamond includes points about big businesses, such as oil companies, and uses both positive and negative examples to show how these companies, as well as the public at large, can directly determine how ecological decisions play out.

This book is dense by popular history standards, but not overburdening in any way. While the text itself is a solid 525 pages, the dozen or so societies on which Diamond focuses offers the reader a new area of interest every few dozen pages. While the overall flow and subject matter are not as well-constructed as Diamond's Pulizer Prize-winning Guns (the opening discussion on Montana was a touch dry), this book nonetheless offers a unique natural history of societies to which most readers will have only brief exposure. Four solid stars and recommended to anyone interested in natural history, ecology, environmental issues, climate change, and histories of societies around the world. ( )

See my review on blog of 2008/11/11. ( )

Jared Diamond takes us on a tour showing examples of societies that collapsed because of, as far as we can see, environmental degradation, and then some that survived. He argues that environmental changes by themselves -- even or especially environmental changes induced by the societies in question -- did not determine the societies' fate; the crucial factor was the societies' response to the environmental changes, though admittedly some societies had bigger environmental problems to contend with. He then concludes with a look at the environmental problems facing today's world with examples of good and bad practice by governments and business and concludes that there is cause for cautious optimism. ( )

Diamond's greatest idea was to include what has and what is happening in Montana in his analysis of why human societies fail. Discovering a way to make all of those whose follow Fox "News" and Limbaugh, as well as the rest of the uniformed or ill-informed to read, study, and consider this book would be the one of the greatest things anyone could do for America and the entire world right now. ( )

In 'Collapse' Diamond makes a very convincing case for resource management and international relations (or, to be more precise, inter-cultural relations) being important factors contributing to the fragility or resilience of cultures, with a culture's response—or lack thereof—to these factors acting as a crucial deciding factor.

The historic and modern case studies are fascinating, in no small part due to Diamond's evocative writing and travel anecdotes.

The introductory section about Montana seemed to drag at first, but, in hindsight, it provides a realistic grounding for the following chapters.

Diamond's 'Further Readings' section is a wealth of related publications. Their being divided by chapter (and hence subject) makes it a much more usable reference than footnotes or endnotes. ( )

His sequel to Guns, Germs and Steel details the collapse of numerous human societies, from Easter Island, Mayan, Anasazi, to the Norse Greenlanders, and he lists the warning signs of potential collapse: deforestation looms large. His warning may allow us to change our course. ( )

http://pixxiefishbooks.blogspot.com/2...

I read Jared Diamond's book Guns, Germs, and Steel almost exactly one year ago and really enjoyed it. Collapse was one I'd been seeing around a lot, so it was time to tackle it. And it did not disappoint. Guns, Germs, and Steel is the better of the two, but Collapse is also worth a read.

The book is a series of case studies of environmental degradation, and the ways in which the societies affected did or did not overcome these collapses. Guns, Germs, and Steel looked at the winners in civilization; Collapse looks largely at the losers: the Vikings, the Easter Islanders, the Anasazi of the American Southwest, the Mayans, modern-day Rwandans, and so on. But he also looks at societies that managed to overcome their environmental difficulties; for example, the Icelanders. Iceland is an environment that should not work, yet it is one of the most prosperous nations in the world. Why?

Diamond's basic argument, to really dumb it down, is that not all failures of societies can be blamed on a cataclysmic event, on an act of God (or whoever), but that many times, a society fails because it does not respond appropriately to the environment around it. So the Vikings, for example, tried to live in Greenland in exactly the same fashion they had in Norway. Greenland's fragile ecosystem could not handle this, and so it eventually collapsed. Greenland itself, however, did not become inhabitable; the Inuit lived there for many centuries after the Vikings were forced to leave. But the Vikings were unable to adapt to a lifestyle that was more sustainable on Greenland's shores. Likewise, Easter Island, once a lush, thriving ecosystem, was continuously exploited by the Islanders until it, too, became what we now know it as: a barren, windswept rock of an island. There was no great event that destroyed Easter Island. People kept living there, farming the land and cutting the trees, until there were no trees left, and consequently erosion sped up.

Diamond also looks at a few modern-day societies who are facing potential environmental crises. Japan, with its post-WWII rapid deforestation, is one of these. So is the state of Montana, with the damage mining has wrought on its natural environment.

The pace gets sluggish at times, but overall the book is well-written and thought-provoking. I like the way Diamond approaches this subject - not too preachy, not too technical. He mixes just enough science with real-life meaning to make it interesting. Start with Guns, Germs, and Steel and move on to this one if you want to know more. ( )

A very long book at 700+ pages, but well worth wading through. Extremely interesting analysis of collapse of past several societies and their implications for our own. ( )

Detailed examples of societal collapse past and present, from Norse Greenland to Haiti, are contrasted with examples of success and analyzed for causative factors. Closing section suggests risk factors for collapse and applications to today's world. ( )

A complelling argument, well presented. ( )

Excellent analysis of the ecocide of civilizations ( )

Över snart sagt hela jorden – från Grönlands kyliga vidder till Australiens öknar – har människor försökt skapa sig hem och utrymme att överleva. På många platser har imponerande civilisationer byggts upp, för att sedan försvinna plötsligt. Ibland har de tagits över av starkare grannar, med fördelar i teknik, demografi eller politisk struktur, men i några fascinerande och gåtfulla fall har de till synes utan yttre påverkan försvunnit. Anledningarna till detta, och de lärdomar vi idag kan dra därav, är temana i Undergång. Jared Diamond tecknar där bilden av hur samhällen på höjden av sin makt drabbas när mattan rycks undan under deras fötter, någon gång av händelser bortom deras kontroll, någon gång av deras överutnyttjande av jordens resurser. Det som främst sysselsätter Diamond är nämligen miljövård, inte krigisk erövring.

Boken är uppdelad i tre huvuddelar: en där forntida samhällen, främst kända genom arkeologi, skildras, en där samtida stater beskrivs och en som försöker ta ett så brett grepp på frågan som möjligt, och bland annat beskriver vad som görs och kan göras för att mildra våra nuvarande problem.

Metoden för de historiska studierna består främst i att teckna en översiktlig men bred bild av samhället och dess ekonomi som möjligt, för att därefter visa hur det anpassade sig eller försvann. De av samhällena som försvunnit var av varierande storlek – från bosättarna på polynesiska öar, som kunde räknas i hundratal (en av de mest befriande styckena är uppgörelsen med den ädle vilden, en sterotyp som fortfarande frodas och beslöjar blicken när man skall tolka vissa folkslags historia), till maya-indianernas miljonsamhälle. Eftersom analysen främst inriktar sig på inre problem, var dock samhällena samtliga mer eller mindre isolerade, och eventuell konkurrens var som mest en faktor av flera bakom nedgången och fallet. Mest utrymme får nordbornas samhälle på Grönland: två egna kapitel, plus ett om andra skandinaviska kolonier i Nordatlanten. Beskrivningen av dessa får väl sägas vara i stort rimlig, men med vissa besvärande missar. Diamond refererar till exempel genomgående och irriterande till alla invånare före kristnandet som »vikingar«. Styckena om andra regioner har jag svårare att bedöma, men jag gissar att han även där är lite för beredd att framföra en viss teori som gällande sanning.

Andra problem med boken ligger i den usla korrekturen. Den är fylld av stavfel som lätt skulle ha fångats av ett rättstavningsprogram, anglicismer och meningar som saknar ord. Två bilder förefaller även ha bytt plats. Nog borde väl Nordstedts ha råd med korrekturläsare? Guldstjärna däremot för det fina registret, där varje huvudord även fått underrubriker som hjälper i sökandet.

I de senare kapitlen beskrivs som sagt olika övergripande teorier, som allmänningstragedin och vad jag skulle vilja kalla »kulturell inlåsning«, som är än infernaliskare än den teknologiska: det går trots allt att byta ut bensinmackarna mot laddare för elbilar, men att bli av med bilismen i sig är värre i ett samhälle där bilen är en så positivt laddad symbol. Diamond är dock inte ute efter att berätta vad exakt som måste göras; möjligen baserat på en insikt av att olika samhällen måste finna olika svar. Han berättar istället vilka problemen är, och vilka idéer som är mindre bra eller direkt dåliga. På det hela taget är det en intressant, något tung, alls inte oersättlig, men på flera sätt rekommenderad bok. ( )

I believe you have to at least consider Diamond's five point framework for analysis:

"1. Environmental damage
2. Climate change
3. Hostile neighbors
4. Friendly trade partners
5. The society’s responses to its problems."

Then, support the points of analysis with empirical evidence. It is in the application where Diamond's analysis begins to fragment. He wants to compare societies that have little in common, except that they might illustrate points of his analysis.